Message Board for Homosexuality and Christianity

Homosexuality is wrong. Look at the verses the way they were meant to be looked at. Follw the original translations and do not change the scriptuer to fulfill your point. Im reminded that two shall not be unequally yoked so this means that men and men or women and women shall not be " together".

from mr15.labs.as.ua.edu
Amanda Grout <yodarun4tide@juno.com> 

I believe that homosexuality is definitely a sin but we have to remember that we are all sinners. We need to show love for these people and we also need to share our beliefs with them. Tell them why we think it's wrong instead of just turning our backs on them. They need to see Jesus Christ through us. Love one another.

from talmai.lccs.edu
Andrea Gentile <Agentle@hotmail.com> 

Dear Mr. J. Townsley I want to applaud your effort to search God's view on homosexuality. The following response is not indended as a put-down of your position but I would like to raise some questions on your interpretations--in a a Christian and loving manner. First, Why you interpret Leviticus 18 only on a social & religious manner? I would not be so limiting. I would include also the clinical. Today we are more conscious of the clinical implication of having sex when a woman has menstrual periods. However, this does not stop us to take a remedy in other ways besides abstaining. Taking care of my body--and the body of my wife--in a manner that is responsible and pleasing to God is one of the implications drawn here (and not only from these verses). So, one of the principles behind the Lev 18:19 is still valid tody! With this I want to reaffirm that the principles of the Old Testament are relevant to us today in spite of the context in which they were written. Second, the overall principle--as you have also mentioned--is to have a pure sexual life-style according to what established from the beginning. God made a woman (also in hebrew is clear the distinction of masculine and feminine) to be the man's wife (Gen.2:18-25) Third, Why you did not mention in your web site Leviticus 18:22? "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman." interpretating the passage in light of the context (sexual behavior)is clearly saying that no man should have sex with another man. Fourth, did not God wanted to destroy Sodoma & Gomorra BEFORE the two angels entered the city? (See Gen 18-19) This should bring to the conclusion that the "mob" was a symptom of a mentality. Homosexuality--though not the only sin of the cities--was one of the detestable things God refers to. Lastly, did the word in 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:9-10 includes also homosexuality? It is true that the word is a "soft" translation but because of this characteristic the word is iclusive rather than exclusive. In light of the principle that a verse must be interpreted with other verses I suggest that homosexuality was one of the intended meaning of the author, since-- in those days--homosexuality was considered a sexual misbehavior. These are some questions that I would like to bring to your attention! I'm sure that you have received similar responses, but i would like to have a more direct answer if you would like. Thanks for the opportunity you gave me to share my position. Oh. One last thing. . . God's love is never intended as sexual, so God's Love (agape) for us is totally different from the sexual love between a husband and wife. Sure! They also have to have agape-Love for one another as every Christian-- male or female--should have for everybody. . .without any sexual reference! Thank you again In GOD's LOVE. . . Andrea Ps. I am a male--my name is Italian. Just wanted to clarify :-)

from ppp3-6.zapcom.net
Brandi <mcdougal@zap.com> 

How can you say that the bible doesn't speak against homosexuality. You clearly say that it speaks against men being with men, but then how do you justify that every erson named in the Bible was straight. When God speaks about marriage he always speaks about "men and woman" so where do you get off aying that God speaks in some cases for homosexuality. Maybe your Bible is different then mine, but if so your reading the wrong one!!!

from pm3-6-073.ama.arn.net
George Herring <gherring@arn.net> 

I don't doubt your salvation. That is something that is between you and God. I don't, however, share your views on homosexuality. I believe the bible states clearly that it is an abomination. I too am a sinner like everyone else and I continue to sin because I'm human. It is important to understand, though, that God cannot look upon sin and that the only way to God is through his son Jesus Christ. It is not my job or anyone else's to convict you, but the Holy Spirit. Sin or not sin is a cross you have to bear and no one else can do it for you. Press on to the upward call, listen to what God is telling you, not what your peers tell you. George

from mussels.cms.udel.edu

Hello - this is a response from an atheist ex- catholic (so you know where I'm coming from, tho' my atheism has nothing to do with the anti-gay position of the church.) It seems to me that you can't begin to moralize about gay relationships without first figuring out what defines a moral sexual relationship. Perhaps the Bible can help there, but I think it leaves much to be desired, and I also think that much of modern Christian sexual morality comes from non-Bilical sources such as St. Augustine. It's surely impossible to discuss sexual morality fully in a handful of paragraphs, and human behavior spans the gamut from celibacy through serial and life-long monogamy, through faithful polygamy, all the way to total promiscuity. At least in men. I would argue that no part of this behavioral spectrum is necessarily more moral than another, in all circumstances. If morality is to have any meaning, if it is to be useful in distinguishing right actions from wrong, there must be some sense in which a behavior results in good or ill to some person or group of people. If the behavior is neutral in this sense, then morality is not involved. So who decides what is good or ill? There, I think is the nub of the problem with Christian sexual morality. I can understand that society would want to police sexual relationships between people of opposite gender, as that can carry grave responsibility. Equally, I can understand why heterosexual marriage in the final analysis is different from a gay partnership. But how can my consensual sexual relationship with someone of the same gender result in any ill to other persons or groups of people? I do not believe that traditional conceptions of sexual morality, handed down from patriarch to patriarch, are useful in this case, beyond issues involving trust and honesty between partners. Neither do I think sex requires love or monogamy to be moral. Oh yes, you can argue that committed relationships are more rewarding than promiscuous or evanescent ones, but more moral? In the absence of positive harm, morality isn't an issue. Can promiscuity, well, let's call it lust, cause harm? Well, of course it can when taken to excess, but it is not a logically necessary result. In short, I think debates on morality would be easier if we focused on the consequences of human actions, rather than agonizing about the intent of long dead writers of a language notoriously difficult to translate. The Bible can be a useful guide, even to atheists, but literal interpretations have been the source of much harm, and hence immorality, in the world. No-one should accept Biblical passages as prescriptive of a moral life without reflecting for a long time on the real consequences that acting on them literally would have. A belief in God is not an excuse to abandon the duty of thinking for one's self.

from mussels.cms.udel.edu
lesz <lesz@udel.edu> 

Ooops - I forgot to identify myself in my previous message, and I don't like anonymity in such cases... I also didn't read your other submissions before sending mine. So please don't be discouraged by the negative reactions. I and many other gay people are grateful whenever we see thoughtful and compassionate Christianity... the Christians we hear from most often have moved very far from the teachings of Christ, and are motivated by hatred. So, thank you.

from www.asbury.edu
Carrie Lanier <carrie.lanier> 

hi. i too am a Christian. i am not sure what i think of your views. i believe that homosexuality is a sin. don't ask me for Biblical refrences to back that up, because i am not sure that i could produce them, but i do think you have a point. Christia ns today are way too condemning of homosexuals. If being gay is a sin, then what homosexuals do is no worse than what every other sinner does. Therefore, they should not be treated any worse by Christians. We should love the sinner, but hate the sin... and i don't see that happening. God did create Adam and Eve though. I think that the first creation is the example of how things should be.

from 1cust5.max38.new-york.ny.ms.uu.net
Christoper Hayes <Remiel@msn.com> 

First I should say that I am 25 y.o. gay Catholic man. I would like to thank you for posting your views and opinions logically and intelligently. With such a heated topic, it's often easy to allow emotions to cloud judgements when stating what you belie ve. It's much harder to find where that emotion is derived from and see if that point of origin is based in logical and realistic means. Emotion is a very important part of this equation, however, it is not helpful in coming to an understanding of God and "His" intent of humanity. What always strikes me as funny is that a lot of Christians become hypocritical when they try to rationalize homosexuality's unholyness. If we say, for example, that homosexuality is a sin because two men or two women cannot get married and therefor sex between them is a sin, why not allow them to get married? If a person's standpoint is the sex before marriage issue, fine, stand behind it on a hetero and homo common ground where both parties are allow committed, mongomous, and religiously recognized re lationships. I tend to find that heterosexual premarital sex is not a steamboat for persecution as homosexuality's is. In fact, it would amaze me to see a Christian organization put the effort into that campaign, as they do the "fight" against gays, and try to stand on the same "moral" ground. It would amaze me if they put any effort in it at all. Take for a bad example the Baptist ban (maybe 45% on the congregation) on Disney. There main concern is that ABC is advocating for the acceptance of the ho mosexual lifestyle, a deviant sexual dehavior. If they are going for deviants, the all networks and movie houses should have been picked long ago. Much of today's television revolves around premarital sex relationships, murder, deceit, adultry, betrayal , not loving thy neighbors ect. all deviant behavior from scripture, no? I think where the root of the arguement comes from, is the ability to reproduce and what that means. It can be taken as a God given gift or temptation. I think much of the lack of homosexual references has to do more with the church's or prophets' attem pt to keep humanity from extinction (it was a small world back then), than condeming the behavior. We are all a part of God. Every aspect, every feeling, every behavior is of His creation. They are a part of something greater that we may never be able t o understand as physical creatures. Make no mistake that I am gay and I am of His creations. The love I can feel for another man is equal to, if not greater than, the love between a man and a woman. That love is why I believe I am here. We are spiritu al beings sent to have a physical experience. Don't interfer or impose on my experience. Worry more of your own...Be happy. Thanks again for your words and this forum. Sincerely, C Hayes

from mussels.cms.udel.edu
lesz <lesz@udel.edu> 

Just a quick comment about gay marriages in the past - many cultures including the Greeks had "gay" relationships, but these were of many different forms and were frequently ritualized or were a rite of passage. Often they encompassed pederasty or bisexuality. "Gay" as a concept didn't really appear until this century, and though there are frequent historical examples of "special" long-term homosexual relationships, like Alexander the Great and Hephaestion, committed relationships were never a serious issue until modern times. I guess that we have become more moral this century!

from pine21.usm.edu
Jonathan Dimas <jdimas@ocean.otr.usm.edu> 

Hello...I'm not really sure how this thing works, but I'll leave a message anyway. I agree with most of what you say, but I do have a problem with the whole long-term realationship thing. I am a Catholic boy, bisexual by the way. From the teachings of the church, I feel that homosexuality is not in and of itself a sin. It is the lust and the sex that is the sin. As a Catholic, I believe that in order to have sex, you must be married. Our church teaches that sex must have to elements to it. A unitive element and a procreative element. To men or two women couldn't be procreative, but a straight man and a gay woman (or vice versa) also wouldn't be able to have the unitve element, because the homosexual could not fully love the opposite sex. I've heard the argument about infertile heterosexuals being the same problem, because they too would not be able to be procreative. "So why are they aloud to marry and not homosexuals?" Well, I had a really big problem with that for a while. I had read all this in an article about a month ago. Well, the only answer I have is that, in the Bible marriage is defined to be between a man and a woman. That's my answer. It's a really hard thing for me to deal with, but deep down inside I feel that I'm right. I don't know if I'd feel the same way if I were in a committed, loving, non-lustful relationship. As of right now though, I just don't know if I'd ever be able to have sex with another man, and still feel chaste. Well, thanks for listening.

from 206.48.60.113
Patrick W. Collins <pcollins@sirus.com> 

I would like to engage in conversation about this topic. Hope to hear from you. Patrick

from hind201b.plu.edu
Josh Thornes <iceparrot@mindless.com> 

Just because it is not our custom to follow God's laws, does not mean we should not. Homosexual is wrong. It is just as wrong as having sex before marriage, God meant for sex to be a beautiful thing between a man and his wife, not between any other two people, whether it be a man and a un-married woman or two people of the same sex. YOu can't just discount parts of the Bible if they don't agree with your beliefs. You eithere believe all of the Bible or none of it, for to believe some off the Bib le tells God you think he is wrong, and since the Bible is the Word of God, then you have to belief all or none. It's not a choice. -- In God's Love- JT As for the Old Testament passages, I discount them all because they are either found contiguously with verses we wouldn't think of following anymore (abstaining from sex with a woman while she is menstruating on pain of social and religious ex-communicati on: Lev. 18.19-22, 20.13-18)

from 206.105.115.79
David Smith <dcsmith@kih.net> 

Thank you for your interesting article.

from 208.22.124.1
Mike <mauen@mbc.edu> 

I am a happily married heterosexual male with 2 children and I thought homosexuality was OK until I became a born again Christian, dedicated my life to Jesus Christ, and started reading the Bible. The truth cannot be denied. No matter how much I would like the Bible to say what I want it to say, I cannot twist or distort God's Word. 2CORINTHIANS 5:17 says "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone and the new has come!". If we look inward and ask "Am I a new creation?" how would we answer? I'll admit, some sinful ways are harder to let go of than others. But isn't it great to know that "nothing is impossible with God"? Look what he did with Saul of Tarsus. But we shouldn't wait for the blinding light. We all need to pray now, and pray often. God bless you brother.

from s12-pm38.snaustel.campus.mci.net
J. David MacCallum <randypierce@ecsu.campus.mci.net> 

Gen 19 aren't you forgetting chapter 18, for it's in this chapter that we find the condemning of Sodom not ch. 19. Abraham pleads with God to spare those that are righteous. Vs. 20 of ch. 19, "And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grevious; vs. 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?" Before you can interpret scripture you must frist put it into it's context, which you have clearly not done on this point. Romans 1:27, again you must put it into it's context, read vs. 24, 25, and 26. It was the lust of their own hearts that caused them to turn the truth of God into a lie." It was for this cause that God gave them up to vile affections..." You must fir st read these verses before you jump to verse 27 "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust (lust of the flesh-sin) one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly (indecent), and receiving that recompence of their error which was meet." I Co. 6:9, effeminate- (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon) a male who submits his body to unatural lewdness. In the beginning God made male and female, Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. If God had homosexuality in His plans don't you think He would have made them compatible (for the lame-brain that means able to have children), guess what? A man cannot have children, it won't work, it's impossible. Either you have been blinded from the truth or you are gay and have turned the truth of God into a lie. You do not want to face the truth the homosexuality is a sin, act and all. So you can take this however you want. God will judge this world just a s He did Noah's and just as He did Sodom and Gomorrah, this time He ain't startin' over. It's unnatural Period!!!

comment from jt-1) you might want to use a more comprehensive resource than Thayer's lexicon for refutation purposes (TLG, BAGD, etc), or even better, articles from scholarly works that specifically deal with the Greek here; 2) so by your final line of reasoning, an infertile couple is either a) not really married, or b) inappropriately married (should "annul" and become celibate, allowing the other person to fulfull God's intended purpose of baby-making)?

To whom it may concern: I have had an opportunity to read the statements which oppose those positions which are not favorable to the homosesxual relationships. I must say that it seems somewhat arrogant to imply that all learned biblical scholars approach the sacred text from a deconstructionist perspective. I have a M.A. in theology and am well versed in both Greek and Latin. I must say that your arguements are valid, but are not convincing. Furthemore, I must state emphatically that we do have an excellent example of Chr istian marriage in the household codes of Colossians and Ephesians. I did my masters thesis on these passages and am curious why they were ignored. Finally, I am a bit curious why you did not further develop your search of patristic literature. All in all, I am pleased that you are interested in searching out the truths of the faith regarding homosexuality. However, if our search is honest, we must be willing to humbly submit to his revelation. P.W.

from 63.reno-01.nv.dial-access.att.net
mark mckinnon <mark@enlightnd.com> 

You do truly go into great depth to prove your points but you are severely mislead and I pray that your focus on the lord will return the way it used to be. Return to your first love before you cause many people of the lord to stumble, and as far as you n ot wanting opinions of others on this page, get yours off then because that's all you have is opinions that will soon be destroyed by the coming of our lord jesus christ

from 199.8.110.187
Cory <martinc@bethel-in.edu> 

I have went through and read most of the essays that you have on this site. The more I read the more I realize just how much homosexuals,and homosexual supporters, will bend and twist the word of God to fit their lifestyle. Trying to interpret scripture to fit a lifestyle is wrong. People need to change their lifestyle to fit what the scriptures say. I wish I had more time right now, but I want to write back and give a rebutal of most of what was written in this misinformed website.

from ppp12.ionline.net
Pastor Paul Birley <office@watpen.org> 

Hello there, Thank-you for your very helpful material on this very important issue. I am a youth Pastor in Canada and am presently researching this area to do a paper on the issue of Homosexuality and how we can help in the church. I have no great wealth of opinion only to say that I would love to connect with others who are doing research on this topic. I want to do a parallel to how Jesus treated people who were ostracized by the "church". Thanks Paul

from aw208.amberwave.net
Rachael Rae Carrell <suerae92@awav.net> 

I had a dream of such perverse evil that it woke me up with it's violence (we won't go into content unless in private e-mail). I asked God to take this vision from my mind and went back to sleep. I had an even worse dream. I woke and asked for God to protect my dreams from the enemy. I went back to sleep again. The dream which woke me up for the day was of making love to my wife. There were such pure and glorious emotions felt in the dream that I woke with a smile on my face. As I was laying there thinking of the dream I heard a voice in my head/heart say "Now, wasn't that better?" I know that the voice was not an opinion or a dream. It was my reassurance and my God said that to me. I praise His name to this day for that. Rachael

Kateri Monsalves <library@perth.igs.net> 

I am a student at a small catholic highschool for years I have questioned the church in this area. Does not the bible say judge not, I have no right to pass judgement on anyone be they heterosexual or homosexual, and it is immpossible for me to belive tha t any loving God would suspend his love for someting so insignifigant as whom a person choses to love. In my opinion the Church needs to take a closer look at the perception held of homosexuality, it is not going to go away. My generation is alot more a ccepting of homosexuality and many refuse the Catholic religion for the lack of understanding concerning gays. Many of us now have friends or relatives who are gay and we support them, We are the future of the Catholic Church, do not dismiss us. My reli f at discovering this page was great, it is to me like a light at the end of a tunnel. It gives me hope that if the church can learn acceptance then mabey parents will accept their children and prevent some of the massive suisides by providing love and understanding rather that fear and hate. Thank you for planting the seed, you have my wholehearted support.

from ww-tl02.proxy.aol.com
brett hansen <ohiobrett@aol.com> 

The basis of my statement is that homosexuality is not a lifestyle one chooses of his or her own free will. The homosexuals desire to be with another of the same sex is no different than the heterosexuals desrie to be with the opposite sex. A baby's gen italia is one of the last things to develop while in the womb. All baby's begin their lives in the womb as females. The only difference between a baby that will develop male genitalia and a baby that will develop female genitalia is the Y chromosome tha t the male posesses. At a certain point in the develop of the unborn baby, the Y chromosome tells a gland in the body to begin to produce male hormones. These hormones wash over the baby and if the baby is normal a penis and scrotum will develop. In or der for this to take place however, a certain receptor must be activated by the male hormones. If this receptor does not 'read' the hormonal message, a chromosomal male baby will be born with female genitalia. So the question is is the baby male or fema le? Society says "Ahh vagina means its a gril." But maybe the person grows up and just doesnt feel like a girl. This is just one example of how gender and genitalia are not the same thing. Gender is determined by your chromosomal make-up. Genitalia j ust has to do with what you have or dont have swinging between your legs. Now getting back to homosexuality and christianity. The bible, especially the old testament says that people who engage in homosexuality are sinners(at least this is the general feeling of those who know more than I about theology). The old testam ent also says that people should never touch the skin of swine, which to you sports junkies would mean no more football. Swine are pigs and footballs are made from pig skins. So i believe that the Bible, especially the old testament, is somewhat outdate d for present time. The overall truth in the Bible is clear, but people seem to get hung up on the little side verses that are not relevant in today's world. God told the people not to touch swine back then cause pigs were dirty animals and you could ca tch many diseases from them. Today, we have things like soap and other sterilizing methods to kill any organisms that may be on the pig's skin. Now if you believe, as I do, that the cause of homosexuality is a physical one and not a choice made by guys without fathers or girls who were tomboys, then how could you believe that a homosexual person is a sinner. That is like saying "Welll Johnny over there was born with no legs so he can't get into heaven cause he can't run." That is asinine. Some people say that even if homosexuality has a physical cause, homosexual should still not engage in homosexual sex. I would like to know how many of them would do the same is homosexuality was the norm and heterosexuality was considered deviant. People need to quit worrying aobut who is sinning and who is not. I believe a prominent Christian once said(and i dont want to hear from any of you Baptists if I butcher the verse; the meaning is what counts) "Do not judge thy neighbor, lest ye your self be judged." Basically mind your own damn business. I am sure that there wil be plenty of room in heaven for everyone who is deserving. Hopefully the door man will see fit to let this poor soul in to join the party. BRETT HANSEN

from pdx57-i48-31.teleport.com
Greg Nicosia <tigger@teleport.com> 

Hello! I'm glad that I found YOU! I'm a 22 yr. old gay male. I grew up in a Church of God until I was 18, when I came out and moved out from home. My mother is a Christian who has been very confused about the issue of my sexuality. She has turned to various anti-gay/religous organizations and has been given ONLY biased information. Can you help me? She won't go to PFLAG with me nor will she get any nonbiased information. Thank you so much for your time and help!

from mod8.cintranet.co.uk
Munafiq <meph@mindless.com> 

You have certainly provided a well reasoned attempt at reconciling homosexuality and christianity however, admirable as it is, I do not believe this is the issue. In looking at the arguments from a purely literal direction and following the Bible to the letter you are propagating the practice of dogmatic adherence which has so often been the cause of conflict and strife within the church. The Old Testament in particular should be rejected out of hand for it is clearly a document whose time has past, aft er all would you advocate living by the rules of any other ancient society, so why should arbitrary rules, most certainly not inspired by God be held as the one universal truth...surely Christianity is about following the spirit of Jesus's teaching...and specifically the spread of tolerance and understanding. The Bible is simply the interpretation of a religous system by various individuals throughout history...it has evolved and is neither sacrosanct nor inerrant. When Christians learn this then maybe they can stop squabbling and finally learn to embrace the true spirit of their faith.