Posted by Ant on August 05, 19102 at 21:23:50:
In Reply to: My oppostition to the Vatican Nation posted by Chris Geiger on August 05, 19102 at 14:46:15:
Hm, this post is kind of all over the place; first talking about the Catholic Church, then this phantom specter, then a few lines about other life forms, then idolatry, then some quotations.... I understand your passion and agree with much of what you say, but it might help not to ramble, but to organize what you want to say. It would keep people's attention longer and put them in your point of view.
Anyway, I wanted to address a couple of things here. First off, yes, the Catholic church has less to do with spirituality than religion, which are two different things. Funny how everyone but Catholics have known for *centuries* that priests and pedophilia go hand in hand. It's been a running joke since the Vatican's inception, but fundamenalists want desperately to believe that clergy are holy supermen, all the while preventing "perverted" openly homosexuals from teaching in public schools. All this despite the fact that an out gay teacher has less of a reason to reach into his classroom for sexual partners.
As for Mary and the saints, you have to realize that Christianity is mixture of many different religions and mythologies. Love for the goddess has existed throughout human history, and it's unlikely that Christianity would have succeeded without a goddess figure. Mary is an incarnation of Isis, Hera, Shiva and all the other female divinities people have worshipped. It is essential to have a Mother figure, as we are all from her womb. She is symbolic of creativity, nurturing, and protection. In many cases, her body is the world. People will always need the goddess. Mary is simply the Christian version.
As for the saints, they were essential in turning pagan cultures to Christianity. To the northern Europeans and to natives of the Americas, the natural world was full of mysterious animal and plant powers. When you live and die in these environments, it's easy to see that nature possesses energies we don't. So, for these people, every aspect of the world had its corresponding spirit power; water sprites, wood fairies, little people, ghosts, goblins, tree spirits, and such.
You can't expect a people who have lived a certain way for eons to suddenly convert to your religion. And so, the church allowed for these different saints, all vested with a certain power or characteristic, which are really just new names for these old pagan beliefs. This was so far back in history that most Catholics aren't even aware of what they really believe. Their ancestors were superstitious, and centuries later, they've come no further. Their superstitions are now a part of this new religion.
I honestly hope this whole situation of pedophilia, and the church's stance on sexuality in general, will shed light on the hipocrisy of those views. It's no coincidence that this religion has undergone many changes since the very beginning. People don't want to believe that things have and can change because they want something, anything, to be constant, eternal, and absolute.
In truth, however, life is purely momentary, and is constantly changing. The only certainty is death, so people try to reconcile the two, the desires of security and eternity, and the fact of change and death. But to want life without change or suffering is to want something other than life. Still, we can't help ourselves.
This is why it is so important to understand that religion and mythology are addressing real human needs, not supernatural heirarchies. You have to look at the symbols of religion to find their reference within yourself, not turn them loose onto others.